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WIGAND IS ASKED WHETHER BROWN & WILLIAMSON USED RAT POISON IN PIPE TOBACCO MR. MOTLEY:
Q. Sir, at any time did you learn that Brown & Williamson was using a form of rat poison in pipe tobacco?
MR. BEZANSON: Object to the form.
A. Yes.
MR. MOTLEY:
Q. What form of rat poison is that, sir?
MR. BEZANSON: Object to the form.
A. It is a compound called coumarin. It was contained in the pipe tobacco --
MR. BEZANSON: Object on trade secret grounds and instruct not to answer.
MR. MOTLEY: You are objecting that the man is revealing that you used rat poison as a trade secret?
You may answer, sir.
MR. MOTLEY:
Q. Go ahead. If they used rat poison in pipe tobacco that human beings were taking in their bodies, I want to know about it. Will you tell me about it, sir?
MR. BEZANSON: Object to the form.
A. I was concerned of the continued use of coumarin in pipe tobacco after the coumarin had been removed from cigarettes because of the FDA not allowing the use of coumarin in foods with additives. The reason why it stayed in pipe tobacco is the removal would change the taste of the pipe tobacco and, therefore, affect sales. They continued to use it until the time I left, even after the NT program.
MR. MOTLEY: Object to the form.
A. Once it had been released in the NTP study, even though it was still being used in Sir Walter Raleigh aromatic tobacco at significantly higher levels, other pipe tobacco manufacturers had removed it. There was clearly a document in B&W's file that the use of coumarin was in direct conflict with existing B&W policy on additives.
MR. BEZANSON: Move to strike as nonresponsive.
MR. MOTLEY:
Q. Let me see if I understand you correctly, sir. You learned that coumarin had been taken out of cigarettes because it was dangerous, and you learned that coumarin had been taken out of other companies pipe tobacco because it was dangerous, and you requested that coumarin be taken out Sir Walter Raleigh pipe tobacco; is that fair?
MR. BEZANSON: Object to the form.
MR. MOTLEY:
Q. Is that what you said?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And what did Mr. Sandefur tell you when you asked him to take that rat poison out of that particular pipe tobacco?
MR. BEZANSON: Object to the form.
A. We got into a very significant debate. I'd probably consider it an argument. And that it could not be removed because it would impact the sales of the STP business particularly since the aromatic pipe tobacco was one of the higher selling products.
MR. MOTLEY:
Q. And until the day that you were dismissed by this same former salesman, Mr. Sandefur, the president and CEO of Brown & Williamson, did they continue to have coumarin in the pipe tobacco that you described?
MR. BEZANSON: Object to the form.
A. Yes.
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